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Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
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Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Anyone who has done any finishing knows that the headstock can be really tricky to buff out. Perhaps that is why most production shops like Martin do most of them with a satin finish.

I am currently spraying my first neck with such a volute, and am realizing that it is going to be really difficult to buff that area.

Anyone willing to share some timely and sage advice on how to buff without ripping the finish off the top of the dart?

Thanks...
Author:  ChuckB [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Don, not much different than buffing anything else, don't buff the edges. I don't have a problem buffing lightly right over the volute, just beware of the edges.

Chuck
Author:  timoM [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Hi Don, I hear what you're saying.

On some of my builds the aesthetic I'm looking for is pretty hard edged, crisp corners and very defined shapes. Of course the older players with physical challenges won't pick these unholy beasts up, those like my age. laughing6-hehe

A crisp volute is very similar. When working on these hard edged shapes I don't do any sanding to the peaks or edges before buffing. I stay very aware of wheel pressure on those edges. I then polish the edges, corners, tips, etc. by hand.

One thing I can add though, I am using more and more polyester and it is much less prone to burn through. Just a thought.

T
Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Likewise. I level sand each surface plane very carefully, avoiding edges. Once I work down to Micro Mesh 3600, I'll start lightly going over the edges, up to about 6 or 8000, then lightly buff through the compounds. Once I started using Micro Mesh wet with soapy water, I saw the light and will never go back.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
I guess I'm also wondering if anyone uses anything other than a stationary buffer for these sorts of things. It is really easy to take the finish off even the corners and edges of a headstock with a buffer. It can be a real challenge! I tried buffing the back of the headstock the other day, and tore off the edge on the back as well as the finish on the tip of the volute. Argh. More spraying, more waiting!
Of course, this is varnish, so I suspect it is a much softer finish than other things to begin with.
I might also have to try one of those drill-mounted buffing systems. Who knows? Might be the right thing for this.

Tim, I've tried to like polyester, I really have, but it just looks to plastic to me. Otherwise, I'd do UV cure polyester in a heartbeat.

Ken, I also like Micro Mesh, and have been using it for this project. It works wonders at times, but it always seems that I find tiny scratches in the finish that are hard to get out even after using all of the grits carefully!

<Sigh> It's a hard thing, being a perfectionist...
Author:  Mike Collins [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
A Dremal with buffing pads-1-3 pieces as needed.
Variable speed one that is!
HEEE!!!
Mike
Author:  Pat Foster [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
I don't hit the volute at all with the buffer, just go to the max with Micro-Mesh and hand-buff. also steering clear of edges. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but that doesn't mean a buff-though isn't waiting for me.

Pat

P.S. I use varnish, so I'm not after the wet look anyways.
Author:  grumpy [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Most of my builds have the diamond volute and glossy neck. I don't find it challenging to buff; just use a light touch and turn the neck as necessary to introduce flat edges to the buff. And move quickly enough to not overheat the surface, and on this topic, don't concentrate on buffing the volute. Because it's such a small item, you -will- overheat it if you try to take to a full gloss in one going.
Author:  timoM [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Tim, I've tried to like polyester, I really have, but it just looks to plastic to me. Otherwise, I'd do UV cure polyester in a heartbeat.

You know Don I hear you again. Being a professional cabinet and furniture builder all I have to say is every finish is a compromise. Last year I sprayed almost 300 gallons of various finishes. But, sorry there is a but, I believe finishes are a lot like guitar nuts, every guitar has one but few are done correctly. The ICA poly I'm occasionally using specs out at 1.9 to 2.1 mils dry, one customer thought it was FP shellac another thought his guitar was abused by dryness because he could actually see the grain of the spruce. This poly is incredibly durable at that thickness and it hardly looks plasticky. Sadly most of these finishes because they don't crack or craze get laid on thick enough to skate on. It's frankly a bit ridiculous.

Beyond that I see some good advice here, to avoid using the buffer completely on the volute and using micromesh. I just fixed a small dent with micromesh and am amazed you cannot see a depression or a gloss change.

Happy building, Tim

P.S. I still show people your happy face uke and everyone loves it.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Tim, is the polyester that you use a UV-cured product? If you are getting comments that it looks like FP, then that's a good thing.
Author:  timoM [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
Hi Don, I use ICA PF5051, its is a self sealing, polishable poly. The cure is by addition of a 2% catalyst, there is also a 2% accelerator added. I typically block sand and detail sand the entire body and neck. I have gotten very particular about this step as it will greatly reduce any sanding through later on. I first apply a tack or isolation coat, in about ten minutes apply a full wet coat. I about 2 hours I scuff it with maroon scotchbrite, shoot another full wet coat. I have begun finish sanding as soon as 3 days later. I believe this is about as thin one can apply this product but it was developed for high gloss finishing of furniture and cabinetry. Most guitars are a bit more pampered.

Here is the product link-
http://icaamerica.biz/poly.php
Author:  joe white [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
This might seem obvious but after final sanding the neck to buff, tape off the "dart" and buff the rest of the neck as you normally would. It might take a couple layers of good quality tape to protect the dart but it offers you the freedom to buff the back of the peg head without the worry of the dart. Once the neck is all buffed, remove the tape and mask around the dart so that you can focus only on the dart. There are some nice hand held buffers available that can be used for these small areas. Some offer speed controls to allow even more control but the ones that don't can be controlled with a simple in line regulator. You have the option of then using wool pads or any of the various foam pads that are designed to work with many different compounds.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buffing around a diamond / dart volute...
That tool looks like just the thing I had in mind, although I'm wondering I there are any detail sanders out there that do a similar sort of job.
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